We Discuss Everything, Why Not This?

[MyHarley]

Let's also not forget the "computer age." This has changed a lot about American lifestyles......for those of us that are old, we had a whole neighborhood that raised each other. We did not sit at home playing video games and posting on the internet and vice versa our parents did not spend any evenings on the internet...........

I agree that the equal rights movement did change a lot about men and women........its a shame that the whole family had to change just for women to get a few rights.....mainly equal pay (its still not equal), more job opportunities, less sexual harassment (notice I said less)........

 

[donmbmw]

Sometimes I think that we as American have too much freedom and it gets abused

I think your confusing freedom with license. We have been losing freedom in this country steadily over the years and the war on terror and the ensuing legislation i.e. The patriot acts is taking this to dangerous new levels. Yet at the same time we have grown more decadent. Sex, and violence glorified in the media, then emulated in the streets. Everybody has "rights" but no one wants to talk about "responsibility" and the beat goes on.

 

[Big Daddy]

I agree that we have been losing freedoms in this country, but I do not think the "patriot acts" is the problem, I think it is the freedom to be a Christian and freedom to worship Jesus Christ that is the problem.

 

[frolf]

i was thinking about this last night, about this whole freedom thing. and how our country can't really do one thing as a whole without some hippy or some extreme right winger throwing a huge fit and leading half the country against the other half.

i started to think about how when the government was openly oppressing its citizens, great things happened as people rose up to the oppression. now we as a whole sit comfortably knowing that no one group can really take over. that sounds good and all, but what about the good people. what about the groups in our country that could make a serious contribution to society, they can't rise to power. i think its because no one cares about our country, only themselves. they like it the way they want it, and if they have the money when something changes to their disadvantage, they organize some big rally (totally cool cause its within their rights) or pay out big ads and stuff to get it overturned..... for them, not the country.

you all know that i'm pretty young and stupid, but is it wrong for me to feel that it will be some great evil that saves our society and not some ultra positive political group?

 

[Bryan330i]

i think its because no one cares about our country, only themselves. they like it the way they want it, and if they have the money when something changes to their disadvantage, they organize some big rally (totally cool cause its within their rights) or pay out big ads and stuff to get it overturned..... for them, not the country.

you all know that i'm pretty young and stupid, but is it wrong for me to feel that it will be some great evil that saves our society and not some ultra positive political group?

I don’t think you are young and stupid; you have very good ideas and it is the younger people that can make changes. Our society has some problems and I think if indeed there is a final judgment day coming, few will make the cut.

Does anyone think that as Americans, we tend to follow our religious beliefs when it is convenient? I say this because I see so few people truly living what the beliefs of their religion dictate.

I see this so often nowadays, affecting everyone from political leader to everyday citizens. It is like saying do as I say not as I do and appears to be a widespread problem.

In school over the years I have had to take a variety of religion classes. And I see so few people living by what I remember different religious convictions to be that it make me sick; how can so many be such hypocrites?

 

[donmbmw]

I agree that we have been losing freedoms in this country, but I do not think the "patriot acts" is the problem, I think it is the freedom to be a Christian and freedom to worship Jesus Christ that is the problem.

You don't believe that you are free to worship Jesus? I don't get it.

 

[Big Daddy]

For example here in Washington state a student got a scholarship when he decided to major in theology they revoked his scholarship (only because he wanted a degree in theology-he was not getting a minister's license) and after a law suit the state Supreme Court upheld the decision. So it is ok to use Govt money (It is actually the taxpayers money) to sponsor the "piss christ" by the NEA, but not to send a young man to college to get a degree in theology.

Take to the lawsuit about the Pledge. No one was required to say it, but the liberal nutz in the 9th Court of Appeasment decide "Under God" is not acceptable.

The Alabama case with the 10 Commandments. Did you know that the 10 Commandments is posted on in the US Supreme Court building. How long before we remove "in God we trust" from our money?

This is all a threat to me being a Christian, removing any mention of God from society.

 

[indy_85stariones]

Former Justice Roy Moore became a circuit-court judge in Alabama in 1995. He immediately placed a hand-carved wooden plaque of the Ten Commandments on his courtroom wall.

He became very popular with the people of Alabama and eventually led to his election by the people of the Alabama to the top judicial position in Alabama.

It should have been no surprise that upon assuming his new position as chief justice of the Alabama Supreme Court, he installed a two-ton, washing-machine-sized granite monument of the Ten Commandments in the courthouse.

Whether you agree or disagree with this issue, you certainly will agree with me on these three points.

1) The residents of Alabama clearly wanted those Ten Commandments inside of their courthouse.

2) Even though polls showed that only 45% of people outside of Alabama wanted those Ten Commandment to be removed, political organizations outside of Alabama came in and filed law-suits to have them removed.

3) The people of Alabama lost another piece of their freedom on that day when the Ten Commandments were removed.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=34217l
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/08/22/national/main569775.shtml
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/08/28/national/main570565.shtml
http://www.pbs.org/flashpointsusa/20040127/discuss/topic_02/page10.html

Remember, twelve of the original thirteen colonies incorporated the entire Ten Commandments into their civil and criminal codes.

There is a public display of the Ten Commandments in the U.S. Supreme Court, engraved in the stone above the head of the Chief Justice with our National symbol, the great America eagle, protecting them.

Because of this action in Alabama, the residents of Lexington (KY), Austin (TX), and Chester County (PA), are at risk of losing their existing displays, just like displays of the Ten Commandments were removed from public classrooms in 1980.

http://www.probe.org/docs/c-10comm.html

Quietly and methodically, the U.S. Government is in the process of establishing a new national religion. It is called Secular Humanism.

http://www.secularhumanism.org/

 

[Big Daddy]

indy_85stariones, exactly!

 

[Bryan330i]

I admit, sometimes religious displays bother me.

I remember my grandparents having strong religious beliefs yet they honored and believed in the separation of church and state without question. They were some of the best people I have ever known that lived by truth and respect for others yet NEVER pushed religious issues and believed this to be more private with a time and place.

I question motives and if people are tying too hard to make themselves feel better. A true believer should know where they stand. They should have confidence in the later judgement of their actions. If they want to persuade people do so in a setting more conducive as I am not sure how anyone could reasonably argue that such a statue elicits belief and Christian character in someone that otherwise does not have these qualities.

I share my grandparent views on religion. They had a respect for the diversity and freedom of our nation combined with strong religious beliefs. I do not feel that my religious beliefs or character is at all influenced by such displays or lack thereof-to me there is a lot more involved that my worldly display to others of how good I am or I am trying to be. My religious beliefs hinge more on how I treat people, and not how hard I try to make the world think how good I (we) are as Christians.

 

[Ghost]

IMO anything that helps people live with a mutual respect for one another only helps society. To change something such as the Pledge of Allegiance or the role of the Ten Commandments in our schools and government will hurt society in the future.

It’s not a teacher’s responsibility to raise their students, but many times school is the only place many children get any type of guidance. One thing that I have seen first hand is that a child that doesn’t respect life will not have respect for ANYTHING as an adult.

 

[adrean8j]

Isnt interesting that all the major religions of the world would agree with what the 10 commandments state and/or stand for?

 

[Bryan330i]

IMO anything that helps people live with a mutual respect for one another only helps society. To change something such as the Pledge of Allegiance or the role of the Ten Commandments in our schools and government will hurt society in the future.

It’s not a teacher’s responsibility to raise their students, but many times school is the only place many children get any type of guidance. One thing that I have seen first hand is that a child that doesn’t respect life will not have respect for ANYTHING as an adult.

I agree about the respect of others. But I think the Ten Commandments can only be taught in private schools, or at least to the degree required to create an effective understanding. And if you take this to the public school system, how can you address all of the religious beliefs sufficient to cover the spectrum allowed in the foundation of our nation? Given that religious freedom and acceptance was specifically designed into the foundation of our nation.

I agree that the Pledge of Allegiance should not be changed. But if we introduce religion into the mix in public schools we are going to have a ton more classes, unless one class is created that deals with all religious beliefs, and I am all for this. I was required to take religion classes that taught about all significant religions and I do think this is a good way to go.

 

[indy_85stariones]

Many questions need to be asked, as we are watching the removal of the Ten Commandments around us.

A) Where did they originate? They were given to Moses and the followers of Jewish faith after God brought them out of slavery under Pharoah in Egypt. They are found in Exodus Chapter 20 and Deuteronomy Chapter 5
http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?passage=EXOD+20&language=english&version=NIV
http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?passage=DEUT+5&language=english&version=NIV

God gave specific instructions to teach them to our children.
"These commandments that I give you today are to be upon your hearts. Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. Write them on the doorframes of your houses and on your gates. "

"In the future, when your son asks you, "What is the meaning of the stipulations, decrees and laws the LORD our God has commanded you?" tell him: "We were slaves of Pharaoh in Egypt, but the LORD brought us out of Egypt... to bring us in and give us the land that he promised on oath to our forefathers. The LORD commanded us to obey all these decrees, so that we might always prosper, as is the case today."
http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?passage=DEUT+6&language=english&version=NIV

B) Who put them out for display at public places -- statehouses, city halls, courthouses, & schools -- in the first place?

When examining the life of Ben Franklin -- Although it can be debated whether Ben Frankin ever confessed to be a follower of Christ, it is very likely that he was in favor of displaying the Ten Commandments in public buildings. He was a member of the Presbyterian Church and an avid supporter of Samuel Hemphill, a controversial minister within the church. In 1739, he became friends with a popular evangelist, George Whitefield, and began publishing his sermons. George Whitefield continued on to be a leader of the Great Awakening movement at that time -- a movement that favored the simplicity of the Gospel of Christ over the dogma and theologies of the bureaucratic established churches.
http://www.benfranklin2006.org/years2.html
http://www.theology.edu/journal/volume2/ushistor.htm
http://www.evergreenpca.com/epc1097.htm
http://www.litencyc.com/php/speople.php?rec=true&UID=4994
http://www.rain.org/campinternet/am...ry/religion-us-history-great-awakening-1.html
http://www.rain.org/campinternet/am...ry/religion-us-history-great-awakening-2.html

Current displays of the Ten Commandments are evidence that Christian and Jewish beliefs were woven into the fabric of the culture of our nation of that time. It is estimated that over 4,000 public displays of the Ten Commandments exist in the U.S.
http://www.freecongress.org/media/031118.asp

C) What is separation of church and state?
Religious Freedom. - The First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States (q.v.) requires that "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

The phrase "Separation of church and state" first appears in a letter from President Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Association of Danbury, Connecticut, on Jan 1, 1802. The Baptist Association had written to President Jefferson regarding a "rumor that a particular denomination was soon to be recognized as the national denomination." Jefferson responded to calm their fears by assuring them that the federal government would not establish any single denomination of Christianity as the National denomination. He wrote: "The First Amendment has erected a wall of separation between Church and State."

http://www.theology.edu/journal/volume2/ushistor.htm
http://www.sierratimes.com/03/08/23/article_hb.htm

D) Does the display of the Ten Commandments promote one denomination over another?

It is a given that followers of the Christian and Jewish faith wish to have the public displays of the Ten Commandments to continue to exist. What about the followers of the Islam (Mohammed) faith?

The Ten Commandments is not itemized in the Holy Quran.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/translation/index.html

However, every command listed in the Ten Commandments has a direct supporting reference in the Holy Quran.
http://www.islam101.com/religions/TenCommandments/tcQuran.htm
http://islam-usa.com/e70.htm

Conclusion
The First Amendment guarantees the free exercise of religion. Do you hear of any members of religious organizations objecting to the display the Ten Commandments? No, you hear objections from Atheists, those that deny the existance of God.

Although many of our founding fathers may have been Deists -- belief that God created this world and its natural laws, but takes no further part in its functioning -- their beliefs were closer in line with Christianity than Atheism. Many of our founding fathers had disagreements with the teachings of the established churches of their time. All of them demonstrated a strong belief in the existance of God.

There are over 4,000 public displays of the Ten Commandments that exist in the U.S. They are proof that our Christian and Jewish beliefs are part of our Nation's heritage -- like any historical monument.

Our great-great-grand-parents (and their parents) thought that Ten Commandments were important enough to have been placed in our public areas in the first place. There were no court orders to have them taken down back then. What has changed, such that they need to be removed now?