bin laden is an idiot

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#21
Okay, let me put the information together.

Am I the only one that reads cnnmoney, WSJ?????

Are you guys saying you have NEVER read about Cheney and the misreporting of 100's of millions? You never read the report about George Bush when he said "don;'t sell your stock, the price is too low" then he sold his within days and the bottome fell out, making him an extra 800,000.00???

You have got to be kidding me???????

Where have you been?????? Damn, it is easy to see how people can blindly follow their leaders in so many other countries.

Tax cut poll
http://money.cnn.com/2004/04/15/news/economy/election_moneypoll/index.htm
 
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epj3

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#23
jszar said:
I agree with the statement that Bush has done the best with the situations he's had to deal with. i also believe that citizens dont hear everything until years later, due to evidnece or information that needs to be kept low profile.

america has so much to offer the world. i think bush is trying to take advantage of this fact, i would too if i were president.

remember that those soldiers that are dieing willingly joined the military, if they want to choose the wars they want to fight in, then they shouldnt be in the military, period.
Best of what situations? 9/11? I agree on trying to get rid of the taliban but we havent gotten rid of the real evil - the terrorists. We went after Iraq which the administration LIED and OPENLY ADMITTED to lieing (Condolezza rice just a few days ago!!). Also, why dont we KNOW whats happening? I as a registered voter and a citizen have a right to know what my country is doing in other countries. I dont see why it'd be such a security problem -- the media blabs about all of our countries sercurity vulnerabilites, so what would be the harm in saying that we are actually doing something against terrorist organizations?

Yes we do have a lot to offer the world, but when the world disagree's with us with the exception of a few of our closest allies (read: "our bit*ches") then are we really doing the right thing? The middle east is nothing like the western culture. They simply dont view life the same way!

Yes the soldier who died willingly joined the military, but thats not the issue I have (though it's a complete waste of life, if they were in afghanistan trying to get rid of terrorists, then bush's approval would still be high).

I dont want to be drafted next summer to fight for a war that we LIED about to get into in the first place, and havent done ANYTHING but put the country in worse condition before we invaded. Hasnt ANYONE here seen the picture out of time magazine??

If we were fighting Afghanistan/terrorists and I were drafted, I'd be proud to fight -- but thats not what we are doing.
 

Big Daddy

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#24
Come on Bryan, you have not answered one question I asked about your statements above. Instead you have listed two more rumors without any documentation! The link is a poll where in CNN states most Americans do not feel they benefited from the tax cut. Ok, I did not get some hugh benefit that afforded me to buy another BMW, but I bet when those 100's of thousands of Americans spent that money it helped the economy. If I got a dollar back from my taxes I would be happy, it's my money and I earned it, not the government.
 

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#25
Big Daddy said:
Come on Bryan, you have not answered one question I asked about your statements above. Instead you have listed two more rumors without any documentation! The link is a poll where in CNN states most Americans do not feel they benefited from the tax cut. Ok, I did not get some hugh benefit that afforded me to buy another BMW, but I bet when those 100's of thousands of Americans spent that money it helped the economy. If I got a dollar back from my taxes I would be happy, it's my money and I earned it, not the government.
My parents got $350, and that was becuase of the child refund that only applied to my sister. As if i don't cost money to feed??

We are upper-middle class and didn't benefit at all.
 
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#26
This information is all over the place and I find it shocking that people don't know about it. I will post different items as I get time.


Published on Tuesday, July 16, 2002 in the Los Angeles Times
Cheney's Grimy Trail in Business
His career offers a textbook example of shady doings.
by Robert Scheer


Vice President Dick Cheney has spent most of the past year in hiding, ostensibly from terrorists, but increasingly it seems obvious that it is Congress, the Securities and Exchange Commission, the media and the public he fears. And for good reason: Cheney's business behavior could serve as a textbook case of much of what's wrong with the way corporate CEOs have come to play the game of business.

The game involves more than playing loose with accounting rules, as Halliburton Co. is accused of doing while Cheney was the Texas-based energy company's chief executive.

On Sunday, SEC Chairman Harvey Pitt, whom Cheney pushed for the job, reluctantly turned on his sponsor and announced a vigorous investigation of Halliburton's accounting violations. Recent business scandals, however, are also the product of legal loopholes that allow firms to scoop up billions in unregulated profits.

It was just such loopholes that allowed the rise and subsequent fall of Enron and telecom heavyweights like WorldCom--in the process making CEOs like Dick Cheney very, very rich.

Recall that Cheney was a political hack for most of his professional life, first as a staffer in the Ford White House, then as a congressman for a decade and after that as secretary of Defense under the current president's father.

During the Clinton years, however, Cheney took an extremely lucrative five-year cruise into the private sector as chief executive of Halliburton.

After deciding, following an extensive search, that he would be George W. Bush's best candidate for vice president, Cheney resigned from the energy services company with a $36-million payoff for his final year of corporate service.

This journey from the public payroll to the corporate towers and back left a slimy trail of conflict-of-interest questions. For example, Defense Secretary Cheney conveniently changed the rules restricting private contractors doing work on U.S. military bases, allowing the Kellogg Brown & Root subsidiary of his future employer, Halliburton, to receive the first of $2.5 billion in contracts over the next decade. When Cheney left to become CEO of the entire company, he recruited his Pentagon military aide, Joe Lopez, to become senior vice president in charge of Pentagon dealings, which ultimately formed the most lucrative part of the otherwise ailing company's business.

Since returning to the public office, these disturbing patterns have continued.

In a scathing expose of Halliburton's military contracts, for example, the New York Times revealed that the vice president's old company had been the main beneficiary of the Pentagon's rush to build anti-terrorism military bases around the world. This new work will cost taxpayers many billions, and, according to Pentagon investigators' estimates, without any cost controls the final bill will be considerably higher than if the military's own construction units do the work.

Cheney denies having a role in securing those recent contracts, as he does knowledge of Halliburton's alleged accounting improprieties.

Unfortunately for Halliburton's stockholders and employees, parlaying his Pentagon contacts into profit has proved to be Cheney's only major business success.

In fact, CEO Cheney put Halliburton's future in doubt by engineering the acquisition of rival Dresser Industries, a move ballyhooed at the time as justification of his $2.2-million annual salary and massive stock options.

But the acquisition has proved to be a disaster because Halliburton assumed Dresser's long-term liability under asbestos lawsuits.

Even without the Dresser acquisition, Cheney was running a failing operation at Halliburton.

The company, despite the government gravy garnered, had earnings well below Wall Street's expectations--until it suddenly changed its accounting rules. By assuming it would be able to collect on cost overruns on myriad construction projects, Cheney's Halliburton was able to inflate profits by $234 million over a four-year period.

Halliburton failed to disclose its accounting shenanigans to the SEC or the company's investors for more than a year afterward, leading to more than a dozen lawsuits alleging fraud, including one by Judicial Watch.

And why are we not surprised that Halliburton's accounting firm was Arthur Andersen, earlier this year convicted of obstruction of justice for shredding documents in connection with Enron?

Andersen's dubious methods have become the disgrace of American accounting. Cheney, however, was sufficiently enamored with it that in 1996 he glowingly endorsed the accounting firm in a video, thanking it for going "over and above the just-sort-of-normal, by-the-books audit arrangement."

Of course, ordinary investors did not know they were getting less than "by-the-books" auditing.

It is especially ugly that the president and vice president, men in a position to know just how sketchy the accounting practices of public companies are, were so eager to make our Social Security system a vehicle for pouring individuals' retirement money into a stock market they knew to be a house of cards.
 

Big Daddy

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#27
What has this got to do with the questions I asked about your previous post?

I am at a loss what that has to do with Iraq, Bin Laden, Gas Prices, Tax cuts, and where does it mention Pres. Bush and his stock advice? We could all post the same types of things about any politician, they all have $$ and some shady dealings with them. You should research Kerry and the Clintons regarding shady business deals.

By the way can we produce some factual documents about all this or do we just have to take the LA Times word for it? I am not sure about the mention of the SSA. My wife works there and claims that the democrats have been the ones who have raided the SSA, and that nothing has been moved to private stocks.

PS I am done, I am not going to change your views, nor you mine so lets part friends before we get emotional. Thanks for giving me something to think about anyway! [:)]
 
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#28
Time to throw my 2 cents in there real quick. I don't like Bush. I don't like Kerry. I don't like politicans. They all lie and do evil things.

Now, with that being said, Bush has done an average job at being president. He was thrown a curveball 6 months into office. I'm not saying what he's done since then has been the best, but what would you do in that situation? I will openly not vote for Kerry or for Bush in the next election. Looks like I'll be voting Libertarian out of principle.

Also, Big Daddy, I have also seen the article Eric mentioned about how the terrorists wanted Bush re-elected. But, what Eric Failed to mention, (and I don't know if it's good or bad he omitted it), is that they want him re-elected so they'll have a bigger reason to attack the US. I will try and do some research tonight or tomorrow and find that article.
 
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#30
Big Daddy said:
Because they are like Kerry, full of critical remarks but offer no solid solutions.
Why give away all the solutions while Bush is still in office to be able to use them against Kerry.

Alls i have to say is, ...nevermind. better left unsaid.
 
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#31
(CBS MarketWatch) Two and a half months before George W. Bush sold his stock in Harken Energy Corp., he signed a "lockup" letter promising to hold onto the shares for at least six months, according to internal company documents obtained by the Washington Post.

The Post reported late Tuesday that the letter, signed by Bush on April 3, 1990, is now being compared with the account his lawyers gave federal securities regulators who examined the stock sale as a possible insider trade.

According to the Post story, the letter Bush signed promising to hold onto the stock was released by the Securities and Exchange Commission under the Freedom of Information Act. At the time he signed it, Harken was considering a public stock offering to raise money to solve a cash flow problem.

The President's lawyers have said that Bush had a pre-existing plan to sell his stock in Harken and other companies to pay a tax bill and a loan he owed for his stake in the Texas Rangers ball team.

In June 1990, Bush sold about $850,000 in shares of Harken, just weeks before the oil and gas company reported an unexpected loss. Eventually, the SEC forced Harken to restate its financials to show a loss of $12.6 million for 1989, disallowing the accounting it used for the sale of a subsidiary to a group of insiders. Bush was a director of the company, which had acquired Bush's own energy firm, Spectrum 7.

SEC regulations require a Form 4 to be filed by all corporate insiders, such as officers, directors and major stockholders, when they buy or sell shares.
Bush filed the required Form 4 about 34 weeks late. Bush was not charged with any violation of securities laws or regulations following an investigation into illegal insider trading in 1991. The SEC concluded that Bush did not have any material, nonpublic information when he sold the shares.

The story in the Washington Post quotes White House spokesman Dan Bartlett as saying Monday that the lockout letter was "made irrelevant and obsolete" by the time Bush sold his stock in 1990 because the public stock offering it affected never went through. But the document calls into question his lawyers' account to the SEC, the Post story notes. Also, the SEC did not interview Bush, so the only account of the sale came from what his attorneys told regulators.

The Post article quotes a Houston attorney and expert in securities law as saying the signing of the lockup agreement "undercuts" Bush's lawyers' explanation for the early sale of the Harken stock. "If his accountant told him that he needed to sell stock to pay a debt obligation for his interest in the Texas Rangers, it does not make sense that he would subsequently sign an agreement promising not to sell his shares of Harken stock for six months." Thomas R. Ajamie told the Post.

The article states Bartlett said there was a general strategy to go forward in selling assets to pay off the debt and "I don't think they were looking for any magic time frame."
 
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#32
Big Daddy said:
What has this got to do with the questions I asked about your previous post?

I am at a loss what that has to do with Iraq, Bin Laden, Gas Prices, Tax cuts, and where does it mention Pres. Bush and his stock advice? We could all post the same types of things about any politician, they all have $$ and some shady dealings with them. You should research Kerry and the Clintons regarding shady business deals.

By the way can we produce some factual documents about all this or do we just have to take the LA Times word for it? I am not sure about the mention of the SSA. My wife works there and claims that the democrats have been the ones who have raided the SSA, and that nothing has been moved to private stocks.

PS I am done, I am not going to change your views, nor you mine so lets part friends before we get emotional. Thanks for giving me something to think about anyway! [:)]

I don't like that they lie and hide behind Christianity. There are serious accounting violations, something I act as a witness on frequently, just as you Big Daddy, act as an attorney according to your specialty,

I have read EVERY Halliburton report, front to back, and I cannot think of business improprieties of Clinton OR Kerry that come even close to this level of fraud.

Sorry, I don't buy his excuses; it's just not possible that he did not understand the shifting of these sums of money.

We all have a vote; it is our individual decisions where that vote goes. I have read a great deal and I only wish I could take back my vote at the last election.

Big Daddy, I have a great deal of respect for you and respect your opinion and our differences in opinion.
 

Big Daddy

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#33
"Big Daddy, I have a great deal of respect for you and respect your opinion and our differences in opinion."

Thanks Bryan and I for you. Thanks to for the dialouge and constructive conversation!
 
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#34
Bryan - Christianity is trying to live a better life. The only person that walked this Earth and did not sin is Jesus. I consider myself to be a Christian and yes I have done things that are not considered Christian-like. Bush has openly admitted that he did many un Christian like things in his younger life.

Heck, Kerry admitted killing people and he still calls himself a Christian.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
 
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#35
Time to throw my 2 cents in there real quick. I don't like Bush. I don't like Kerry. I don't like politicans. They all lie and do evil things.

Now, with that being said, Bush has done an average job at being president. He was thrown a curveball 6 months into office. I'm not saying what he's done since then has been the best, but what would you do in that situation? I will openly not vote for Kerry or for Bush in the next election. Looks like I'll be voting Libertarian out of principle.

Also, Big Daddy, I have also seen the article Eric mentioned about how the terrorists wanted Bush re-elected. But, what Eric Failed to mention, (and I don't know if it's good or bad he omitted it), is that they want him re-elected so they'll have a bigger reason to attack the US. I will try and do some research tonight or tomorrow and find that article.
I agree, for the majority. but, I will vote, because i believe it is our duty to make sure at least the better of the two (not reffering to either candidate) is elected. I also agree that these topics can get unhealthy, mostly because people start to get hostile with their opinions. i try to keep what i say considerate to the opinions of others, i hope everyone does the same. we all have different opinions, lets try to respect them, and discuss and debate with sincerity to learn the facts.

with that said, yes...no one is good all the time, but at least the majority of us try to be. for those of you that dont believe in christianity, all i have to say is that it is not a group of people that think they are prefect, or try to be. we all screw up, and we recognize that. yes, not all the time do christians admit it, even the president...he is still as normal as you and i...except he has a lot of pressure on his shoulders. i know he doesnt want innocent people to die. i know he doesnt want to send our troops overseas. i know he doesnt think this is a board game with plastic soldiers. i know he wants the best for america. is he going to make mistakes? yes, i expect him to. but i wont condemn him for them. i'll lose respect for him only when i see physical proof that he has outright lied, or done somthing in complete contradiction to what he says his goals are. i'd do that for any president, even if i dont agree with his morals or principles.

i may or may not agree with the person as president at any given time, but i will repect that person because i believe it was in God's will for him to be there. i will repect him as i respect any of you, or any one else on this earth. thats how it should be.
 

epj3

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#36
jszar said:
I agree, for the majority. but, I will vote, because i believe it is our duty to make sure at least the better of the two (not reffering to either candidate) is elected. I also agree that these topics can get unhealthy, mostly because people start to get hostile with their opinions. i try to keep what i say considerate to the opinions of others, i hope everyone does the same. we all have different opinions, lets try to respect them, and discuss and debate with sincerity to learn the facts.

with that said, yes...no one is good all the time, but at least the majority of us try to be. for those of you that dont believe in christianity, all i have to say is that it is not a group of people that think they are prefect, or try to be. we all screw up, and we recognize that. yes, not all the time do christians admit it, even the president...he is still as normal as you and i...except he has a lot of pressure on his shoulders. i know he doesnt want innocent people to die. i know he doesnt want to send our troops overseas. i know he doesnt think this is a board game with plastic soldiers. i know he wants the best for america. is he going to make mistakes? yes, i expect him to. but i wont condemn him for them. i'll lose respect for him only when i see physical proof that he has outright lied, or done somthing in complete contradiction to what he says his goals are. i'd do that for any president, even if i dont agree with his morals or principles.

i may or may not agree with the person as president at any given time, but i will repect that person because i believe it was in God's will for him to be there. i will repect him as i respect any of you, or any one else on this earth. thats how it should be.
The thing about the proof -- didnt you watch the hearings with condolezza rice?? I know what you mean by physical proof but no physical proof will be out until after he's out of office.

The thing I cant stand about christianity is that say guy 1, he goes to church every weekend and always gives money to the church - but is a bad person outside of church (Like not giving the light of day to someone in a little bit of need who they could have helped)

Guy 2 - never goes to church and doesnt acknowledge that he's a christian though he's been to church, he never prays, never gives money to the church, but he is a great person all the time, helping people out, and just a good person.

To christians, guy #1 is a better person, which to me is bullshit. I've gone through so much stuff at my church in my life, I got confirmed, did countless musical groups there (choir when I was a kid, handbells, etc.) but I dont agree with almost anything there. They dont live by what they preach.

Censorship is what REALLY pisses me off... the only reason the FCC has to be so strict is becuase of right wing christian extremists who cant control their own TV or radio. If you dont want to hear howard stern, change the station.

They censor everything on tv and radio now, but what they make their kids read in bibles is a lot worse than someone saying the word "Shit" on tv.
 
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#37
First, it's apparent that you don't have children. Second, you really don't know much about the Bible or Christianity. Growing up, I went to church with my parents every weekend and did all the things that a good Christian boy is suppose to. I never really knew what it meant until I began studying the Bible on my own and going to Bible studies with my friends.

Let's look at your hypothetical situation. If guy #1 did give money and goes to church but is a bad person, then he isn't a better person than guy #2. I think the thing you are trying to get at is that you think that guy #1 is going to heaven and guy #2 isn't.

The Bible definitely does not indicate this. If you truly believe in Jesus, then you would live your life the way the he has taught us. The problem with guy #2 is that he has a choice to believe or not to believe. So many people don't read the Bible on their own or strive to learn about Christianity before passing judgment.

Your not the first person that listens to others that don't really know what they are talking about. This is only my opinion, but you really should study something on your own before you make a decision. I doubt you would purchase a car without knowing everything you could about it. Why would you do the same with a life altering choice?

Censorship is a very good thing. I cannot be with my daughter 24/7, so I can't control everything she is exposed to. I agree we can turn it off, but will by daughter? Probably not. Until she is old enough to understand what she is watching, she is much better off not seeing it.
 

CosmosBlack

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#38
This I have been told:

Guy#1 has been a crook and criminal all his life, murder, robbery, rape, you name it.
Just before he dies, he accepts Jesus as his savior. He goes to heaven.

Guy#2 has been a kind, helpful, good, caring, giving, you name it person all his life.
He believes in another God, hence does not accept Jesus as his savior.
He dies, he goes to hell. [?|] [poke] [scratch] [???1] [screwy]

Ps: I will not discuss or debate this, as I know there will not be a convincing or logical explaination. Neither will there be a peaceful end to the topic. [cheers]
 
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#40
i understand where people find christianity hypocrytical...because no one can be completely loyal to it...most mess up all the time, as frequently as non christians in fact. i dont deny it, i am one of em. by saying i am a christian, i try to be a good person, and let people know there is a God. i dont force it, its everyones personal choice. give me a better reason of how this whole world and life came to be, and i will believe differntly.

saying that, i know i will never convince everyone, i am not trying to...just trying to show you where christians stand on this issue. everything has a choice in life, we arnt going to make the right one all the time, but our decisions politicaly are often influenced heavily by beliefs.

have you ever been to amsterdam? if you did, you'd realize why morals and certain lines just cant be crossed...because eventually, it gets to a point that there is no censorship, and everything is for everyone to see and do. not just radio or television, but as soon as it starts, it will never stop. once the language filtering goes, so does the nude filtering etc. it wont stop, you know it.
example--just like you think language filters should go and i dont...(say for instance) you believe nudity should not be allowed, but someone else does...the cycle wont ever end.

would this be a point in history worth remembering? i dont. i think thats a good question to ask when making decisions that will affect the future.

again, i mean only to express my opinion, i am not trying to "convert" anyone or whatever. ..i just wish there could be a higher level of respect between opinions. i was watching one of those congressional meetings on cspan, and its really terrible how they have to stand and clap for a person their party likes/represents, and not for the other. more so than that, they nod heads at each other, mouth things that are totally innapropriate. it isnt just one party or group that causes problems. no one person is totally right ever...people dont get that. just show some respect for everyone, and these debates would be a lot more effective.
 


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