New York/North East blackout

[Bear6360]

bear, you still were in line this time

Aren't I always in line?

awcrap, word!

i am sitting on the fence. on the one hand the US is talking about independant trade and freedom of speech and all those nice things. but when it comes to endangering of the US economy by this open trade they araise dutys and anti dumping rules. that is shiyophren. you know, they praise it in international relationships and want to force other nations to open their markets, but at home they try to keep em out? and as the WTO just recently judged, it is illegal!!!

on the other hand we all owe a lot to this nation. bear mentioned it but under a different light. the us did not come to help the poor frenchies or british, but to prevent hitler from trying to get over the atlantic.liberation of europe was the goal to reach to keep him away. anyway we owe you one.

but just because you saved our ass does not mean that we are not allowed to have critical opinions towards america, right? i got a lot of shit especially for that critical mind i am. it was always said that me, the german, should be the most quiet with my history. but he said it, history. that´s not my cup of tea. no i don´t mean that i forget it, but is doesn´t mean that i have to feel guilty forit either.

bear i don´t say that youmakeme or want to make me feel that way, it is only something i really often experienced and we are just sharing some thoughts here, right?

Let me first state that I NEVER try to make any German feel bad about history. Personally, I get upset when someone DOES try that. It's totally wrong. There is a similar situation in the US when it comes to the slavery issue, but I dare not go there because it will raise too many heated discussions.
NONE of us had anything to do with that so no blame should be placed on any of OUR heads.

I'm not knowledgeable of the whole open trade issue you're speaking of. I don't read enough politics, do I? I would love to open up the trade market. I don't like paying a ton of money for BMW's! Maybe you can explain it in more detail for me.
Don't think we don't know about the government trying to get money. Who do you think they nickel and dime more than foreign nations? That's right....the hard working American citizens. I'm sure they get more money from us than any nation.

No matter how strong Hitler became in Europe, do you honestly think he would have come all the way across the Atlantic? He sure would have spread himself awfully thin for a counter attack by any surrounding nation (or supposed Axis friend at that time).

As for joining the war, there is another reason that I hadn't mentioned. Japan bombed Pearl Harbor. That is the main reason for any US interference. See what happens when you try to leave everyone to their own devices. Instead of getting your hands dirty on your own free will, someone dirties them for you. Can anyone say 9/11? Iraq aids terrorists. Terrorists attack American civilians. End the aid, end the terror. It seems straight and forward. I don't know why some other contributing countries aren't confronted, though. Bad press, I guess. A lot of SUV owners fund terrorist by buying so much gasoline.

As for saving asses, I'm not trying to play the hero or take any credit. I would like to point out that once the war was over, America was not constrained by any contracts, charters, or treaties to help rebuild anyone (I may backpedal on the treaty part because there may have been a clause in the war ending treaties to rebuild the axis countries - not rebuilding them after WWI is what caused WWII or at least contributed to). All the allies that received assistance did not receive it to keep Hitler out of America.

We are all just sharing thoughts and opinions, Count Wadula! Share away. No one's going to be upset with you.

I think when America tries to help other countries, everyone views it as America having other vested interests. Everyone always has a critical and odius eye of America. No one trusts America. I can't blame them to a degree, but I don't want anyone to be mad at me because of a decision I didn't make or because of something I didn't do.

 

[Wadula]

No matter how strong Hitler became in Europe, do you honestly think he would have come all the way across the Atlantic? He sure would have spread himself awfully thin for a counter attack by any surrounding nation (or supposed Axis friend at that time).

i heard that from a US historian once. furthermore it indeed makes sense to me. imagine the power that could have arrised without the US interfeering. It was definetly a thread towards the USA, sooner or later
Furthermore, no offense, but no, absolutely no country sends it´s man to death and defeat or win and heroism for courtesy. the risk is too big.there is always more motivation than the imagination ones name will be in the history books in school of 2050.

I'm not knowledgeable of the whole open trade issue you're speaking of. I don't read enough politics, do I? I would love to open up the trade market. I don't like paying a ton of money for BMW's! Maybe you can explain it in more detail for me.

It works like this. US mills and manufacturers survey the market and the market price. who produces what domestically and who imports to the US. when the imports are of a too low price level, it can be assumed to be dumping. in that case the domestic mill has no chance to sell their products against the cheap import. now, every mill in the US can accuse another country for dumping the prices based on their market surveys. a court in US then decides after evaluation that it is a justified claim or not. if yes the country that was sued has to pay high import taxes that are supposed to lift their dumped price to a market price level. these accusations are only feasable for certain products or product groups. a general punch from agricultural goods to zebra food is not valid.

funny though, that germany and france were accused for dumping on special OCTG material, and judged guilty. cheap countries as argentina not? WTF???? how can a european country be cheaper? and another good example is that when it started in 2001 with those anti dumpings, a US company right away accused 35 mills in several countries....lucky enough the court declared the accusing insane for that

In terms of open trade, the US mills and overall economy must adopt to that situation, even if it hurts.

End the aid, end the terror. It seems straight and forward.

seems....my biggest fear is that this war just gave temporary silence. we will encounter a far bigger war against the west in the next 50 years. the number of people and humans whose hate just got bigger or entered that hate circle is just huuuge. i said that always and repeat myself again and again, i as well wanted hussein away, but the way was wrong. i am afraid that the check we will receive later is too big to swallow....that is my fear. if it doesn´t show up that way, i kneel to the US and admit defeat and will be grateful.
till then let´s hope i, and all other critics, are wrong.

 

[cariblue]

Obviously there has been big talk about this in England.....the generall consensus is that rather than terrorism this time, it's more to do with America's insatiable appetite for resources that has caused the system to fail.

This of course may not be true but makes you wonder whether the US should back off a bit on the resources. It is generally agreed that if America attempted to show the world that is is not the all-consuming bull dozer of a nation all the other countries think it is, then it may gain back the respect and adoration it once had.

Not necessarily my personal view but I can see some sense in it. But I doubt that many of you would agree because it would mean, for one thing, that you pay more for your fuel.

It looks like this is where the conversation took a turn, so I'll jump in here.

If America and Americans are so horrible and wasteful, why do so many people from other countries move here?

Just a thought.

 

[Wadula]

if i may answer to your point cariblue, although not asked, it is the same as with europe plus on special feature.

it is better here than where they come from and second it is america. the land of the free and the unlimitd possibilities. (that is the specialty)

america understands to do a thing that some other countries did not yet. they have a tight selection of who is allowed to enter and live here. that selection is based on rules that determine if the person in question is a positive gain for the country. if he has special knowledge or could develop one, he is welcome. average people that can easily be "replaced" by a native, are not granted that chance. at least not that easy.
oh and of course politocal refugees are always welcome cause that can´t be different and shall never be changed!

 

[cariblue]

they have a tight selection of who is allowed to enter and live here. that selection is based on rules that determine if the person in question is a positive gain for the country. if he has special knowledge or could develop one, he is welcome. average people that can easily be "replaced" by a native, are not granted that chance. at least not that easy.
oh and of course politocal refugees are always welcome cause that can´t be different and shall never be changed!

The same is true for many other countries, as well.

 

[Wadula]

unfortunately not, as it is a good thing. i would like my country to do it the same way.

 

[Bear6360]

if i may answer to your point cariblue, although not asked, it is the same as with europe plus on special feature.

it is better here than where they come from and second it is america. the land of the free and the unlimitd possibilities. (that is the specialty)

america understands to do a thing that some other countries did not yet. they have a tight selection of who is allowed to enter and live here. that selection is based on rules that determine if the person in question is a positive gain for the country. if he has special knowledge or could develop one, he is welcome. average people that can easily be "replaced" by a native, are not granted that chance. at least not that easy.
oh and of course politocal refugees are always welcome cause that can´t be different and shall never be changed!

I think the numbers are as limited as they are so the nation will not become over populated. Also, there are a lot of illegal aliens here. You can thank them as well for the low number of people allowed into the nation. You think the American people like applying for jobs to make less money because there are so many people willing to work for so much less money. 50% of what most Americans make is a fortune to a lot in other countries. That makes the economy suffer because the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
It seems foreign nations (or foreigners) want the US to put their interest in front of the interest of the 250 million people who already live here.
There are certain levels of econmics involved here.

 

[Bear6360]

i heard that from a US historian once. furthermore it indeed makes sense to me. imagine the power that could have arrised without the US interfeering. It was definetly a thread towards the USA, sooner or later
Furthermore, no offense, but no, absolutely no country sends it´s man to death and defeat or win and heroism for courtesy. the risk is too big.there is always more motivation than the imagination ones name will be in the history books in school of 2050.

seems....my biggest fear is that this war just gave temporary silence. we will encounter a far bigger war against the west in the next 50 years. the number of people and humans whose hate just got bigger or entered that hate circle is just huuuge. i said that always and repeat myself again and again, i as well wanted hussein away, but the way was wrong. i am afraid that the check we will receive later is too big to swallow....that is my fear. if it doesn´t show up that way, i kneel to the US and admit defeat and will be grateful.
till then let´s hope i, and all other critics, are wrong.

I don't know enough about the free trade stuff, so I'm going to abstain from the rest of that part of the conversation although I won't rule it out as a reason for other nations to be upset with the US.

As for Hitler taking over the world. The only thing I can say is, if he could have, he would have. There's no better evidence than history to prove a point. At one point it may have been possible. From what I understand, the Alliance wanted Hitler in power because he was ignoring his generals and making military blunders so to speak. In my opinion, he wasn't smart enough to do it. Another point against Hitler taking over the world....he was massing his army for years. The US threw together an army that defeated his in terms of months...even weeks. At any rate, I have history to argue on my behalf. He didn't take over the world, therefore he could not have.
I understand your point about going to war NOT to help others, but because there are other interests involved. I wouldn't doubt if some Americans were saddened about all the war in Europe, though. Remember what Triv said....about where we are from. Some Americans are from France, Germany, and Great Britain. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of relatives still live there. I think SOME compassion was involved in the decision, though, I'm not sure how much.

There has been so much hatred in that region of the world. They have been fighting over there since the beginning of time...way before the US was even a nation. Misery loves company, right? They're just trying to drag everyone else down with 'em.
How long has the US been the target of terrorists? Why? We give them tons of money for oil. If any region of the world understands hatred, it's them. They hate everyone that's different from them. They are radical. The US is not the only target of their hatred. It seems that the US is the only nation to try to do something about it. You may be right, though, or you may be wrong. The US retaliation may make things even worse.....but even worse is bending over and taking up the butt. Not only that, but sending the message to everyone else that you're willing to take it up the butt is even worse than that.
How many Jews had to die before Hitler was stopped? How many Americans will have to die before organized terrorists are stopped? Back then, the enemy had a face. It was more straight forward. ....so many people grow up hating Americans.... most of them don't even know why they hate us. All they know is that their parents hate(d) us so they should too.

I agree with you. Some things are history and should be left that way.

 

[Wadula]

thanks for the comment bear.

What i was saying is that the US were scared he could grow big enough and that is a reason why they entered the battle. To say he did not own the world, so he could have never is absurd. Of course i don't have a prove that he could have, but the fact the he didn't is not at all the reason that he might never. if the US would not have entered or later or earlier, who knows? it did not happen so how do you know? this is a theoretical play of course. We all can be happy it is only that

How long does the US suffer terrorism? in the worlds history it is about 3 days...countries, nations, people are suffering terrorism since centuries. the US can be a target for maximum some 230 years? that is blink in history. other countries even in our times suffer a multiple of that what america experienced. Not that i want to play the happenings down, but don't overrate them either. RAF, ETA and IRA...they penetrated countries for years and still do. No one cared...

And all hate has to have a root. Why do those people hate the US? oh and it is very dabgerous to say a people hates a people....it is only what you see and get shown that hates you. but in fact it is a minority that does have thios aggressive feelings. There were multiple interviews with iraqis...real iraqis and not those dolls that are threatened with agun behind the camera. those people spoke their truth and that was that they give a damn about the US or germany or Alaska. they want to live in their own free country. those guys might not even waste a minute on thinking where to bomb the US best.

It is a really hard time at the moment and i think that we will not agree on a point, though i don't aim to.

bear, i really appreciate your calmness. it is pleasure to discuss that without having the flameproof suit on.

 

[Bear6360]

thanks for the comment bear.

What i was saying is that the US were scared he could grow big enough and that is a reason why they entered the battle. To say he did not own the world, so he could have never is absurd. Of course i don't have a prove that he could have, but the fact the he didn't is not at all the reason that he might never. if the US would not have entered or later or earlier, who knows? it did not happen so how do you know? this is a theoretical play of course. We all can be happy it is only that

How long does the US suffer terrorism? in the worlds history it is about 3 days...countries, nations, people are suffering terrorism since centuries. the US can be a target for maximum some 230 years? that is blink in history. other countries even in our times suffer a multiple of that what america experienced. Not that i want to play the happenings down, but don't overrate them either. RAF, ETA and IRA...they penetrated countries for years and still do. No one cared...

And all hate has to have a root. Why do those people hate the US? oh and it is very dabgerous to say a people hates a people....it is only what you see and get shown that hates you. but in fact it is a minority that does have thios aggressive feelings. There were multiple interviews with iraqis...real iraqis and not those dolls that are threatened with agun behind the camera. those people spoke their truth and that was that they give a damn about the US or germany or Alaska. they want to live in their own free country. those guys might not even waste a minute on thinking where to bomb the US best.

It is a really hard time at the moment and i think that we will not agree on a point, though i don't aim to.

bear, i really appreciate your calmness. it is pleasure to discuss that without having the flameproof suit on.

All the speculation in the world of what COULD have happened will never change the past. He did not achieve his goal. That's that.

You DO have a point about other countries being terrorized. Israel and Palestine have been goin' at it for a while. Neither one has a right to. They're stupid in my opinion. Nothing is EVER going to change. Things would be so much nicer once they learn to live together in harmony. Maybe that's why they hate America. Here, there are so many different cultured people living together in harmony. Leading by example only works if others are willing to pay attention.

Enough is enough, though. I would NEVER condone a malicious attack on another country...but how many unanswered attacks are too many?
It's not a big deal when terrorists attack the US and innocent people, but if the US were to do the exact same thing, everyone's mad at....guess who.....the US. The parties attacked by the US were not even innocent. A large body of government was supplying our attackers with money and means to attack us. They were dealt with accordingly. Some others were not yet which is unfair to the ones who WERE dealt with, but life's not fair.
Would you throw rocks at a bee's nest? I certainly wouldn't....but not everyone is as smart as us.

If the US interfered with RAF, ETA, and IRA, everyone would view their (the US's) motives with a critical eye, come up with the worst conclusion, and hate the US even more. Regardless of US actions, the world will think of SOME way to make it look bad. ...and since when has anything the US has done involved a popularity contest? You can't please all of the people all of the time. The US government has a tough enough time pleasing all of its citizens nonetheless the entire world.

I agree with you. The Iraqi citizens problaby don't care about the US. The Iraqi citizens were not the target of US attacks, though. Saddam and his regime were. We still gave them (the citizens) food and humanitarian aid....and they despise us....just as others do. US citizens were the target of terrorist attacks (funded by the Iraqi government), though, and there are a lot of people in the world who still think the US was wrong. Maybe so, maybe no. Either way, the terrorist are going to find a new benefactor (along with some of the old ones not taken out yet), and they are going to continue their terror. I just can't believe that they hate a culture so badly that they would do suicide bombings to kill us. People like that are dangerous....but they're the good guys in a lot of eyes. They'll kill women and children and anyone they have to with whatever means are available because we are not like them. We're the bad guys here, keep in mind. They will use the most excruciatingly painful forms of weaponry (chemical and biological) to make us suffer. We're the bad guys. See how the trend continues? This is something that bothers a lot of Americans. This is something that makes them stereotype everyone in Europe. ...everyone who did not help the US. I'm not like that. It was not 3000 Europeans killed in the twin towers (although some were). After all of this, I still don't understand why the US is disliked so much.

Count Wadula. The pleasure is all mine. You're an easy person to share points of view with. I listen to everything you have to say. Your opinions mean something to me and help me form my own opinions more accordingly. I always got along with the foreign exchange students the best in school. Often times I think I was born in the wrong country. Either way, let's stay open minded. Throw some more opinions of what I just said my way.

 

[Wadula]

You DO have a point about other countries being terrorized. Israel and Palestine have been goin' at it for a while. Neither one has a right to. They're stupid in my opinion. Nothing is EVER going to change. Things would be so much nicer once they learn to live together in harmony.

WORD!

It's not a big deal when terrorists attack the US and innocent people, but if the US were to do the exact same thing, everyone's mad at....guess who.....the US. The parties attacked by the US were not even innocent. A large body of government was supplying our attackers with money and means to attack us. They were dealt with accordingly. Some others were not yet which is unfair to the ones who WERE dealt with, but life's not fair.

To that i only have one thought. Imagine a country named "example land" being attacked by "bad guy county". The US, as not being attacked, would never allow a major military action of example against bad guy. politics have to be the way.
Now the US were the aim and they change their mind and bomb bad boy from the planet? what about the virtue that was kept sacral before? thrown over board? What the world, or at least parts of it, irritates so much is that the US are applying double standards. the one for the world, and their own. Please refer to my explanation for Anti-Dumping. (btw, i don't mind that the US rises duties, every country does it, the way and the motivation bothers me as it mirrors the double standard again)

I agree with you. The Iraqi citizens problaby don't care about the US. The Iraqi citizens were not the target of US attacks, though. Saddam and his regime were. We still gave them (the citizens) food and humanitarian aid....and they despise us....just as others do. US citizens were the target of terrorist attacks (funded by the Iraqi government), though, and there are a lot of people in the world who still think the US was wrong. Maybe so, maybe no. Either way, the terrorist are going to find a new benefactor (along with some of the old ones not taken out yet), and they are going to continue their terror. I just can't believe that they hate a culture so badly that they would do suicide bombings to kill us. People like that are dangerous....but they're the good guys in a lot of eyes. They'll kill women and children and anyone they have to with whatever means are available because we are not like them. We're the bad guys here, keep in mind. They will use the most excruciatingly painful forms of weaponry (chemical and biological) to make us suffer. We're the bad guys. See how the trend continues? This is something that bothers a lot of Americans. This is something that makes them stereotype everyone in Europe. ...everyone who did not help the US. I'm not like that. It was not 3000 Europeans killed in the twin towers (although some were). After all of this, I still don't understand why the US is disliked so much.

First the government promissed to go in and get out. then they got in, but didn't get out...the word was to install a souvereign legal and judical system with iraqis. now the war is over and the US stay ad set up their own rules. that bothers the people. Thankfull yes, but not switching from one dicator to another. i understand that the US is aiming totally different and dictator is normally not at all the right word, but for the people the troops are a suppressor and a foreign, not voted, not supported, force that applies their own standard. I would not be happy with it either. I understand your picture. you just want to do good, but try to be an iraqi...you would want to be on your own, especially after that saddam was gone.


In your language there is a word that describes the picture a little. the bully. the US sometimes makes the impression to be like a bully in high school. I am big, I am strong and you will follow my rules.

Flame jacket on and GO

 

[Bear6360]

WORD!

To that i only have one thought. Imagine a country named "example land" being attacked by "bad guy county". The US, as not being attacked, would never allow a major military action of example against bad guy. politics have to be the way.
Now the US were the aim and they change their mind and bomb bad boy from the planet? what about the virtue that was kept sacral before? thrown over board? What the world, or at least parts of it, irritates so much is that the US are applying double standards. the one for the world, and their own. Please refer to my explanation for Anti-Dumping. (btw, i don't mind that the US rises duties, every country does it, the way and the motivation bothers me as it mirrors the double standard again)

First the government promissed to go in and get out. then they got in, but didn't get out...the word was to install a souvereign legal and judical system with iraqis. now the war is over and the US stay ad set up their own rules. that bothers the people. Thankfull yes, but not switching from one dicator to another. i understand that the US is aiming totally different and dictator is normally not at all the right word, but for the people the troops are a suppressor and a foreign, not voted, not supported, force that applies their own standard. I would not be happy with it either. I understand your picture. you just want to do good, but try to be an iraqi...you would want to be on your own, especially after that saddam was gone.


In your language there is a word that describes the picture a little. the bully. the US sometimes makes the impression to be like a bully in high school. I am big, I am strong and you will follow my rules.

Flame jacket on and GO

Let me start with the 1st paragraph (as always). It's not like the entire nation was bombed. The current government was relieved of is duty. It was failing to live peacefully with the rest of the world. There may not have been WMD in Iraq, but the chance that there were scared a lot of people. ...especially the US since terrorists hate us more than any other nation....then and now. In order to protect it's people, the US went in to find the weapons. The president would not afford another disaster killing 3000 people in a few hours. Iraq would not even be the country using the weapons...the terrorists would. That is why Iraq comes out of this looking like gold. They can deny everything.

What's even funnier is England was with the US from day one. Nobody hates them. The English are mad at the US for leading them. No one was forced to back us. No one is mad at England, though.

The US promised to leave after the war. They will. It takes time to build a new government....especially one free from any influence of the previous. I'm not sure if they're still hunting down key officials from Saddam's regime or what, but the slate needs to be completely clean, otherwise, propoganda will be spread and the new government will fall. Building a government takes time. The rest of the world wanted to give Saddam all the time in the world. They won't give the US squat. The same countries that were just preaching patience all of a sudden doesn't have any. I don't get it.

The bully in my school was always the one that STARTED the trouble. I always beat up kids in school....but that's because they always came after me. I never did anything to them. I just looked like a pushover.
The US did NOT invade Kuwait. Iraq did. Why? They appear to be the bully to me.
Could you or I actually afford the chance that WMD were really in Iraq? I live near Philly and DC. I don't need some stupid terrorists aiming to destroy those cities. I live to close to them to NOT care.
Had the first George Bush taken care of Saddam, things would be different now. His main goal, unfortunately, was not to overthrow Saddam. At least then the US had a better motive.

 

[Wadula]

The WMD was just the publicity "joke". Several government spokesman already admited that. Now that they did find nothing i can understand that the voters feel betraid (spelling). although that was not the point...

back to the set up of the iraqi's. It was said that US will back out as fast as possible. Now, you are right saying that building a stable atmosphere for democrazy takes time, but the US first want to have it run the way they want it, and secondly again several spokesman and discussions at the UN made clear that this stay was more than building a government. It was officially said by Army rep's that the US will stay even after a iraqi government was elected and in power. Now that is not what they said before.

To england. As far as i know, England is next to the US as terror target for being in that war. Furthermore there are several Europeans that are pretty upset for what Blair did. He officially lied and will bleed therefor. (political of course)
Btw, what has Bush to face for stating the false information?

Preaching patience is right, but see the right context. We (the Anti wars) were not against action against Iraq, but we wanted it another way. There is always another way. Now asking me what this way would have been, my answer again is political pressure and deescalation. Not deescalation of Iraq, but of the other countries that now may build an alliance of terror in the future. If we would have succeeded to take his basics away, sooner or later standingin the field alone would have made him tumble and fall. The result now is the same, it was faster but now the world is even more splitted.

Now saying that iraq was a real threat and we can't afford taking that risk any more, though not knowing if there really are those weapons, is simply not understandable, taking into consideration what korea does. C'mon, Hussein hated US, we all knew it, Korea actually threatens you with A-bombs that ARE there and everybody knows. Why doesn't the US take the military way there as the threat is as big if not even more than it was in Iraq? Now, all of a sudden the government says that the political solution is to be the way to go. I know, you were only waiting for me to bring up that point, so now i await your view on that one.

 

[Bear6360]

The WMD was just the publicity "joke". Several government spokesman already admited that. Now that they did find nothing i can understand that the voters feel betraid (spelling). although that was not the point...

back to the set up of the iraqi's. It was said that US will back out as fast as possible. Now, you are right saying that building a stable atmosphere for democrazy takes time, but the US first want to have it run the way they want it, and secondly again several spokesman and discussions at the UN made clear that this stay was more than building a government. It was officially said by Army rep's that the US will stay even after a iraqi government was elected and in power. Now that is not what they said before.

To england. As far as i know, England is next to the US as terror target for being in that war. Furthermore there are several Europeans that are pretty upset for what Blair did. He officially lied and will bleed therefor. (political of course)
Btw, what has Bush to face for stating the false information?

Preaching patience is right, but see the right context. We (the Anti wars) were not against action against Iraq, but we wanted it another way. There is always another way. Now asking me what this way would have been, my answer again is political pressure and deescalation. Not deescalation of Iraq, but of the other countries that now may build an alliance of terror in the future. If we would have succeeded to take his basics away, sooner or later standingin the field alone would have made him tumble and fall. The result now is the same, it was faster but now the world is even more splitted.

Now saying that iraq was a real threat and we can't afford taking that risk any more, though not knowing if there really are those weapons, is simply not understandable, taking into consideration what korea does. C'mon, Hussein hated US, we all knew it, Korea actually threatens you with A-bombs that ARE there and everybody knows. Why doesn't the US take the military way there as the threat is as big if not even more than it was in Iraq? Now, all of a sudden the government says that the political solution is to be the way to go. I know, you were only waiting for me to bring up that point, so now i await your view on that one.

I just read that now. I didn't know the WMD was officially a joke. I wasn't sure at first, though.

The army might need to stay for a while until Iraq rebuilds it's army. The government needs to make sure it gets started. Also, why shouldn't the US stick around to help form the government. We don't want to be back there again in 10 years.
An alliance of terror might be in the future, but if the US makes good ties with the new Iraq, the US won't have to worry about the new Iraq supplying terrorists with weapons and money.

England might be 2nd on the list for arab terrorists....but I still think Israel and Palestine take the terror cake for now. They're the biggest terrorists AND the biggest targets. I think we're in agreement on that one.

Patience would not work with Iraq. I don't think the US took them too seriously. N. Korea is a different story, though. We didn't need two threats at once....so one of them was relieved. N. Korea is going to fall just like the Soviet Union. We'll just play the waiting game. They're starving, we're not. They'll crack. I DO agree with you, though. I would prefer to go in and take out the nuclear plants, but that might not be a good decision. Eventually, that whole thing is going to become undone. I wonder how it'll turn out. [???1]

 

[Wadula]

i wonder as well and appreciate that we are on the same page as far as that korea conflict is concerned. But i still think that they are the bigger threat.

for the isreal - palestinien story, i better make no comment, i am german

i go home and post on later.

 

[ooo000HITMAN000ooo]

Thread with the longest posts

 

[epj3]

Thread with the longest posts

no you need to see the thread with candyapple7 or whatever his name was -- that was like a 13 page thread

http://www.bmwboard.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=348

we really tore apart that guy

 

[Wadula]

yeah that was hell of a massacre....

i don´t remeber, was he banned or scared away?

 

[epj3]

yeah that was hell of a massacre....

i don´t remeber, was he banned or scared away?

banned (for saying $hit to tom), then he rejoined and was banned again

 

[Wadula]

i just wanted to hear it again