I know that I may be the most verbal person here about the military, Iraq and other events that are on going in our media. I must really say that I am getting SICK and TIRED of hearing and reading about how a U.S. Bomb was dropped on a insurgent house killing a child or an old woman, and the insinuation is that the U.S. Infidels are war hungry, baby killing, death loving, innocent people killing animals. Yet when some asshole straps 100 kilos worth of explosives to his ass and walks into a public market and detonates himself killing 80 people (civilians)and wounding 300 some how it is not viewed in the same light. Somehow that is not as bad. I cannot comprehend what the message the media is trying to present to me. Another thing, the media jumps ALL OVER this RUMOR that we were going to release this female prisoner in a bid to save this Brits life, thus negating the U.S. and British policy of NO NEGOTIATIONS with "Terror" groups. Now Biglys family (God be with them at this desparate time) feels that it is the U.S.'s fault for sabotaging the release negotiations. I would want my Father back also, but don't people realize that the release of one prisoner at the demands of a terrorist would only bring about the the kiddnappings of 100s of more people? Sorry I know this is a shitty subject but I just needed to vent.
Sick and Tired
- Thread starter tool fan
- Start date
It sux. I feel the same way and I don't understand how it gets turned around. Such is the trappings of quagmires. While many americans are happy to live in a fantasy world of spin--where democracy is being spread at the point of a gun to all of the middle east--this is what our pentagon is quietly saying.....
"The study itself was managed by two defense industry executives: Craig Fields, a former chairman of the Defense Science Board and former head of the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency; and Philip A. Odeen, another former Defense Department official. "They conclude by saying: anything started wrong tends to continue wrong," Mr. Reed said during a four-hour hearing of the Senate Armed Services Committee...."
"Portions of the study, which has not been officially released, were read into the public record on Thursday by Senator Jack Reed of Rhode Island, a leader of Democrats who want to expand the size of the military. During testimony by Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and his top commanders, Senator Reed said he found the study "provocative and startling."
Mr. Rumsfeld said the report was an "excellent piece of work," and that he had ordered briefings on its findings for senior military and civilian officials.....
Senator Reed said the Defense Science Board study found "inadequate total numbers of U.S. troops" and "a lack of long-term endurance."
An article published Thursday by Inside the Pentagon, a military affairs newsletter, quoted the study as concluding that "current and projected force structure will not sustain our current and projected global stabilization commitments."...
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/24/politics/24military.html
"The study itself was managed by two defense industry executives: Craig Fields, a former chairman of the Defense Science Board and former head of the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency; and Philip A. Odeen, another former Defense Department official. "They conclude by saying: anything started wrong tends to continue wrong," Mr. Reed said during a four-hour hearing of the Senate Armed Services Committee...."
"Portions of the study, which has not been officially released, were read into the public record on Thursday by Senator Jack Reed of Rhode Island, a leader of Democrats who want to expand the size of the military. During testimony by Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and his top commanders, Senator Reed said he found the study "provocative and startling."
Mr. Rumsfeld said the report was an "excellent piece of work," and that he had ordered briefings on its findings for senior military and civilian officials.....
Senator Reed said the Defense Science Board study found "inadequate total numbers of U.S. troops" and "a lack of long-term endurance."
An article published Thursday by Inside the Pentagon, a military affairs newsletter, quoted the study as concluding that "current and projected force structure will not sustain our current and projected global stabilization commitments."...
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/24/politics/24military.html
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Another thing is it's unclear whether those "civilians" in Iraq really are innocent civilians or not. They hand children guns and teach them to be extremists (and eventually terrorists) at an early age. They do have photos out there of children with guns and stuff. The US is targeting safe houses usually. That whole region is chock full of insurgents. Pretty much all are unhappy Saddam's gone cuz he was their meal ticket. I doubt any of them really are truly innocent cuz if they're not actively killing US soldiers, they're almost certainly providing support of some sort (otherwise we could track down the insurgents easily).
![[chair]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_chairshot.gif "Chair Shot [chair]"){kind=icon}
I think we must also remember that there is a whole raft of things that media will never know about such things as the War in Iraq. What they do is try to be a check on government and they'd be splashing the same things over their front-pages if Kerry were in power today (i really hope he doesn't get in BTW).
As a (relative) outsider i see the current situation in Iraq as a total mess for all those concerned. I think the US troops are cornered and on edge and this creates an atmosphere where stupid trigger-happy things happen. It's only natural that the US troops seem happy to kill but there is no doubt that the media does have an obligation to report the wrongs done by Marines in Iraq. Unfortunately for the USA, it commands much greater attention in the world media and so is less capable of avoiding scrutiny with regards to its military actions. IMO the Iraq War will turn out to be a huge mistake.
As a (relative) outsider i see the current situation in Iraq as a total mess for all those concerned. I think the US troops are cornered and on edge and this creates an atmosphere where stupid trigger-happy things happen. It's only natural that the US troops seem happy to kill but there is no doubt that the media does have an obligation to report the wrongs done by Marines in Iraq. Unfortunately for the USA, it commands much greater attention in the world media and so is less capable of avoiding scrutiny with regards to its military actions. IMO the Iraq War will turn out to be a huge mistake.
Most Americans realize this. The problem is that it is an election year. So the Iraq mess is being sold as fighting terrorism abroad instead of at home. The reasons we went to war keep shifting and we're told it's unpatriotic to question the policy because to do so is to harm our troups and aid and abet the enemy. It's silly really, and would almost be funny if it weren't for so many people dying.
I can only be surprised that people are surprised. Iraqis want us the hell out. Sadam was bad, but being occupied by the Americans is equally bad to them. And hawks in America act surprised when the international community takes note of our prison attrocities and bombing of women and children. (They still like to pretend it was just some fraternity pranks and a "few bad apples" when investigation after investigation has proven them wrong.) I'm sure the British considered Americans barbarious at the Boston tea party. The point in 1776 wasn't that a majority of Americans preferred British rule, but an ideological minority wanted the British the hell out. Somehow history no longer matters I guess.
To show you how intellectually dishonest our parties have become, the Republicans used to believe nation building was wrong. Bush said as much of Clinton's Kosovo. But now in Iraq we are told our soldiers CAN act like policemen where they don't even know the language.
America messed up big time in Iraq on weapons of mass destruction and we know we look like fools. But we can't talk about the elephant in the room during an election year. It's time to spin and repackage everything. Our canidates are marketed and sold with more packaging muscle than Proctor & Gamble's Tide laundry detergent. Now it's extra strength balls, bleach tough on terrorism. Yee-haw.
I can only be surprised that people are surprised. Iraqis want us the hell out. Sadam was bad, but being occupied by the Americans is equally bad to them. And hawks in America act surprised when the international community takes note of our prison attrocities and bombing of women and children. (They still like to pretend it was just some fraternity pranks and a "few bad apples" when investigation after investigation has proven them wrong.) I'm sure the British considered Americans barbarious at the Boston tea party. The point in 1776 wasn't that a majority of Americans preferred British rule, but an ideological minority wanted the British the hell out. Somehow history no longer matters I guess.
To show you how intellectually dishonest our parties have become, the Republicans used to believe nation building was wrong. Bush said as much of Clinton's Kosovo. But now in Iraq we are told our soldiers CAN act like policemen where they don't even know the language.
America messed up big time in Iraq on weapons of mass destruction and we know we look like fools. But we can't talk about the elephant in the room during an election year. It's time to spin and repackage everything. Our canidates are marketed and sold with more packaging muscle than Proctor & Gamble's Tide laundry detergent. Now it's extra strength balls, bleach tough on terrorism. Yee-haw.
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Yeah you're quite right and i must say that was highly intelligent and insightful response. We have a similar problem in OZ too. Election on October 9 (of course nobody ouside Australia knows that!) and it's beginning to blur the lines between what's genuinely required in the fight against terror against what stance might pull the most votes. Politics never changes does it.
My god, a week on vacation, and I come back and find a thread with incredibly good posts and viewpoints of our political system, and what is really going on 'outside' the borders of the US.
Beats the dem/rep back and forth poking from a few weeks ago.
Props to tool fan, codex and anoodle, good read, nothing to add to that! (Other than, I agree!!)
Beats the dem/rep back and forth poking from a few weeks ago.
Props to tool fan, codex and anoodle, good read, nothing to add to that! (Other than, I agree!!)
A couple more examples of why this "Media War" is pissing me off.
Ok, break it down real simple......now at the Abu Grhaib prison "scandal" the Muslim and Islamic men through a tissy fit because of the photos and sexual "torture" that they were subjected to. This was blown WAY out of proportion as to the severity of the problem. We did not KILL, MAIM, MANGLE or RAPE any of the prisoners. This made headlines for several WEEKS. The most voistrous of the group were the Islamic Fundlementalists. Remember Nick Berg? Beheaded in retaliation, and in some peoples mind they were justified in commiting that MURDER. Mind you this was in the news HEADLINES for weeks on end everyday Abu Grhaib this and Abu Grhaib that. Now last month AlQaida operatives (Islamic Fundlementalists) were directly and in-directly responsible for the sensless deaths of over 300 INNOCENT cilivians in Breslin, Russia over half were CHILDREN 10 years old and younger. This made headlines the day of and the day after the massacre. Haven't heard shit else about it have you....those Islamic Fundlementalists didn't have shit to say about that now did they.
Now...if you as an innocent civilian are living in an area of Bahgdad where it is a well know insurgent "hardstand" and you choose to stay there...I say you are RETARDED. If you KNOW that U.S. warplanes hit the same freaking neighborhoods day after day after day and you are an innocent civilian and choose to stay there...once again you are RETARDED. These lives don't have to be lost...the children don't have to die. The parents that choose to stay in that enviroment are to blame.
Two weeks ago there was another big blow out story of how a U.S. Apache gunship opened fire on a crowd of "innocent" civilians that were demonstrating in the street. Now what you don't know is that a Bradly Fighting Vehicle had become "disabled' in the street do to a RPG fired from an insurgent. The crew called in for assistance because a crowd of "innocent" civilians was over taking the disabled vehicle. Throwing Molitov Cocktails, bricks, sticks and what not. In the R.O.E (Rules of Engagement) it says that in order to protect U.S. property from theft, vandalism, sabotage and the threat of immenent danger to life limb or eyesight.....DEADLY FORCE IS AUTHORIZED. You are NO LONGER an INNOCENT civilian when you are in a street circled around a "war machine" hitting it it with a stick....you have now become a COMBATANT and will and should be dealt with accordingly. Our media SUX
Ok, break it down real simple......now at the Abu Grhaib prison "scandal" the Muslim and Islamic men through a tissy fit because of the photos and sexual "torture" that they were subjected to. This was blown WAY out of proportion as to the severity of the problem. We did not KILL, MAIM, MANGLE or RAPE any of the prisoners. This made headlines for several WEEKS. The most voistrous of the group were the Islamic Fundlementalists. Remember Nick Berg? Beheaded in retaliation, and in some peoples mind they were justified in commiting that MURDER. Mind you this was in the news HEADLINES for weeks on end everyday Abu Grhaib this and Abu Grhaib that. Now last month AlQaida operatives (Islamic Fundlementalists) were directly and in-directly responsible for the sensless deaths of over 300 INNOCENT cilivians in Breslin, Russia over half were CHILDREN 10 years old and younger. This made headlines the day of and the day after the massacre. Haven't heard shit else about it have you....those Islamic Fundlementalists didn't have shit to say about that now did they.
Now...if you as an innocent civilian are living in an area of Bahgdad where it is a well know insurgent "hardstand" and you choose to stay there...I say you are RETARDED. If you KNOW that U.S. warplanes hit the same freaking neighborhoods day after day after day and you are an innocent civilian and choose to stay there...once again you are RETARDED. These lives don't have to be lost...the children don't have to die. The parents that choose to stay in that enviroment are to blame.
Two weeks ago there was another big blow out story of how a U.S. Apache gunship opened fire on a crowd of "innocent" civilians that were demonstrating in the street. Now what you don't know is that a Bradly Fighting Vehicle had become "disabled' in the street do to a RPG fired from an insurgent. The crew called in for assistance because a crowd of "innocent" civilians was over taking the disabled vehicle. Throwing Molitov Cocktails, bricks, sticks and what not. In the R.O.E (Rules of Engagement) it says that in order to protect U.S. property from theft, vandalism, sabotage and the threat of immenent danger to life limb or eyesight.....DEADLY FORCE IS AUTHORIZED. You are NO LONGER an INNOCENT civilian when you are in a street circled around a "war machine" hitting it it with a stick....you have now become a COMBATANT and will and should be dealt with accordingly. Our media SUX
(namely me)