Great Editorial

[junglestylz]

After hearing that the state of Florida changed its opinion not to let
a Muslim woman have her picture on her driver's license with her face
covered, this is an editorial written by an American citizen, published in a
Tampa newspaper. He did quite a job; didn't he? Read on, please!

IMMIGRANTS, NOT AMERICANS, MUST ADAPT. I am tired of this nation
worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their
culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Sept.. 11, we have experienced a surge
in patriotism by the majority of Americans.. However, the dust from the
attacks had barely settled when the "politically correct" crowd began
complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others.

I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone
who is seeking a better life by coming to America. Our population is
almost entirely made up of descendants of immigrants. However, there are a
few things that those who have recently come to our country, and
apparently some born here, need to understand. This idea of America being a
multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national
identity. As Americans, we have our own culture, our own society, our
own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over
centuries of struggles, trials, and victories by millions of men and
women who have sought freedom.

We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Portuguese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese,
Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part
of our society, learn the language!
"In God We Trust " is our national motto. This is not some Christian,
right wing, political slogan. We adopted this motto because Christian
men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is
clearly documente d.. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls
of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part
of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.
If Stars and Stripes offend you, or you don't like Uncle Sam, then you
should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We
are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really
don't care how you did things where you came from. This is OUR COUNTRY, our
land, and our lifestyle. Our First Amendment g ives every citizen the right
to express his opinion and we will allow you every opportunity to do so.
But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about our flag,
our pledge, our national motto, or our way of life, I highly encourage you
take advantage of one other great American freedom, THE RIGHT TO LEAVE.

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[MyHarley]

I agree......what gets me is that when I travel overseas to Asian countries, they are not appeasing me by making all the road signs in English, but here in Houston, a lot of our streets are printed in Chinese and English, now Vietnamese and Spanish is wanted, before long, we will have 10 signs to tell you what the name of the street is........also, drivers license test needs to be printed only in English.........some of you may not agree, but we do have a culture here in the U.S. and I would like to see our culture respected, the same as I respect other cultures when visiting their country...........

For my last opinion here........I am proud of the fact that I am a money grubbing, spoiled rotten, instant gratification, American princess........

I could be wrong..............but........


BTW, good to see you Jungle.....missed you, now if only DrPierceMD would post, I would quit worrying........

 

[donmbmw]

For my last opinion here........I am proud of the fact that I am a money grubbing, spoiled rotten, instant gratification, American princess........

Be still my heart! (sigh)

 

[gbf1lm]

ok does she not understand the purpose of a picture ID. in her religion she cant drinve in anycase so if she wants to give up that part of here religion, then she shold give up on the face covered as well, atleast for 1-2 min, for a photo and anytime someone needs to make an ID. cmon immigration takes pictures of her face and ear. HOW did she come here. u can be whatever religion u want, as long as it doesnt get in teh way of certain things. i know like 2 muslim girls in my school and theyve compromised i guess. they wear a scarf on only their hair, and only long sleeve and long pants, even for PE and 100 F weather.

 

[Bryan330i]

For the most part I agree. However, we cannot ignore the Establishment Clause, if we do so what other fundamental principals on which this nation was founded will erode? Where would it end? English as the language here, yes, driver license requirements for everyone, yes.

Like I said, I agree to the point of public, government places. I just think we need to maintain some boundaries and religious practice should be free in one’s personal life, but why in public places?. But then again, I am not one to talk about my beliefs or show them. All of you don't need to know mine or agree with my religious belief. [8)]

 

[CosmosBlack]

I agree 101% with the writeup. She's being ridiculous, the religion is being ridiculous.
But who's to blame here? In the first place, there shouldn't even be an issue.
No picture as required by law, NO DAMN LICENCE!!!!!!!!! End of story!

And yes, that's right, did she give the same shit to immigration with photo id's? I don't think so!

I am an immigrant myself, so I am not racist or discriminating. And I am of no religion. But I am pissed at really dumb people like those, what's so hard to understand that you need a pic id so the law can recognize you? Where they come from, they don't have any rights to dispute anything! Here you give them an inch they want a f*cking foot!

 

[junglestylz]

The booster for the entire deal is the fact that the woman was not borm muslim, or of arabic decent at that. This should go to show you http://www.newsindia-times.com/2002/11/01/letter2.html

If you want to wear a veil in public, I don't give two sh!ts. Talk whatever language you want at home, I don't care. But when you start impeding on the rights of honest, hardworking, born americans, you seriously need to take another look at what your doing. How often do you hear about instances when somebody in the UK complains about the national anthen saying GOD save the queen¿ They are trying to give everybody the same rights, but you and I can't wear a hat in our photos¿ I am very sorry, but I was born here. I love my country. I have signed a contract stating that I would die for my country, and I woulld very well do so. I believe that I do have more rights than the people that try to abuse the system. If you can't read english, then you shouldn't be driving! There is no other logical point of view on this! You shouldn't have a translator for a drivers test. What if somebody yells across to you that your wheel is falling off on the highway and you can't understand them. You'll end up quite possibly killing or hurting on of my countrymen or women. Even if I go to visit a coutry I try to give them and their culture the dignity and respect of trying to learn as much of their language as possible. The fact of the matter is that this country has become so cravingly PC that it is gonna self destruct. I don't want to go die for people that can't give me, my country, my culture, or my fellow TRUE americans respect. This is part of the reason that I WILL NOT be reenlisting in any branch of the armed services, and will quite possibly be moving to another country. What is the point in me taking my time, energy, and intelligence to sacrifice myself for a country that I am growing less, and less fond of¿ I am not going to put myself on the line to save, and protect the rights and lives of a majority of people that want to take my rights, and pitch them out a window because some half brained, nitwit, rotthugging, PC @sshole thinks that they should be treated different. If you want to be treated different, either come up with a cure for AIDS, or run around f@cking chickens, molesting Guinea pigs, and have sexual orgies with a wide assortment of human body parts and tied up farm animals. I am pretty sure that you would be treated differently than everybody else if you did either one of those things. Another thing. I have never been babtised, never go to church, and have an extremely hard time believing in any of the stuff that I personally consider nonsense, but how often do I bitch about the word god being in our national anthem, on our money, or in most oaths that are given¿ Answer.........NEVER!!! Ding, ding, ding..............Gutter, tell him what he's won! If some of this stuff was to take place in other parts of the world, they would have a simpler solution. That is 7.62 NATO. These people would be shot as soon as they opened their mouths. Best solution.............Shut your mouth and let everybody think you are stupid, rather than opening it and proving it to everybody!

 

[Bryan330i]

I agree with you junglestylz and understand where you are coming from. My point that I was not very clear on is that the only part of the editorial I don't agree with is the placement of religion based items in public places, and above all NOT IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS!!!!

I remember growing up in a part of the country for a while, okay it was Salt Lake City, Utah, where there was a lack of church and state separation IMO. Be assured, it was hell!!!! I hated every moment of it. Our constitution was designed to protect up from religious promotion by our government.

Many things like god on money and so on do not bother me at all, I think this can be taken many different ways. But religious items in public schools-NEVER! But people can plaster THEIR homes with them, I don't care, just don't use MY TAX MONEY to sell me on what "they" think I should believe as far as religion.

 

[junglestylz]

There is no excuse for religion in schools. I know where you are coming from as well. I spent four years living in Ogden, where of all thing they had the religious buildings on school grounds. There is a slight difference between prayer in schools, and the pledge. If you don't agree with what the pledge stands for. Then youndon't believe in this country in my opinion, so get out. Of all the thing, I went from a public school in Staten Island, where it was an extremely diverse crowd, and the Muslims, Hindu's, and other assorted race's and people of religios decent, that were trying to get a better life by moving to this country sucked it up and were proud to even be able to recite it, even though they didn't believe in God. You don't have to believe in god to live in this country, but you should at least be able to give the culture in this country, and what it was founded on repect. Even when I spent a couple of months in Japan, I learned their customs, and gave them repsct despite the fact that I wasn't Buddhist, or any of the other religions that thrive in that country. Not saying the pledge is equal to gowing into a Japanese house and hangin my hat on their shrine in my opinion.

 

[Bryan330i]

Yes, the pledge is very different IMO and I think it leaves the phrase god open to interpretation so take it or leave. But I cant even imagine how it would suck if the doors would have been opened to full legal religious display and promotion in public schools in Utah

 

[junglestylz]

The fact that the federal government hasn't come in and said that it is indeed against the constitutional rights of others to place a religious institution on the grounds that share the same lines as a publis school mystifies me. It was a moderate pain gowing to school in those conditions, but nobody forced me to take seminary, so I really didn't care that much.Seiing as how it is the only state that has that severe of a lack of seperation between church and state, it still gives the people that have that much of a problem with it the oprotunity to move somewhere that has a more equal set of standards. That is why the government in Utah doesn't get hassled that often. I also believe that is where the activist should be concentrating their effort, not in Florida, NY, Or CA where it is most diverse. As soon as they said that people wouldn't take a moment of silence for the terrorist attacks because they percieved it as a prayer to God, it was getting a little out of control. As for the Sultana Freeman, she should stop causing trouble, and wasting the taxpayers dollars with this petty act. The fact of the matter is that in many of the more prominent muslim countries it is either illagel for women to drive, to have identification cards (they go on their husband or fathers), or required that they not wear their veil in identification pictures. This is in fact destroying the entire purpose of an identification card of any type.......to identify someone. She pulls the argument that Jews get to wear their Yamaka (forgive me if it is a typo) in theirs, but you would have to look extremely close to even tell if they are. Even the ten comandment I can moderately understnd as it is a statue that declares what a deity has put forth, rather than just the base religion in which the country was founded on. It is less of a symbol of our culture as a whole, but is still a part of the culture that made this fine country. I just find it extremely aggravating that if I say "oh my god", or "jesus christ" I will either be offending someone, or impeding on their "constitutional rights". I love my country, but it is getting to the point that these people are making such a fuss about everything, that I am going to end up taking my own advice, and not only breaking my vow to my country, and voluntarily scratching my honor (which is extremely hard for me to even grasp), but moving out of the country which I once loved so very much, because some people believe that they have more rights than me.

 

[codex57]

That's retarded. I didn't read all the posts above but there's no way in hell she should be allowed to take a picture with a face veil on. The purpose of the picture is IDENTIFICATION. If you're covered up, we can't see your freakin face to IDENTIFY you. It's a safety thing. It's got nothing to do religion. A yarmuke (sorry, not sure how to spell it) is totally different. That thing is a little itty bitty cap that sits on top of your head. You prolly cant even see it in a picture. And since it's for a driver's license, her argument is even weaker. Driving's a privilege, not a right. She doesn't wanna take a picture, she doesn't need a license.

 

[Ghost]

License:'lI-s&n(t)s
Permission granted by competent authority to engage in a business or occupation or in an activity otherwise unlawful.

It’s not a right, it’s a privilege that’s why it can be suspended or revoked.

I’m glad someone stood up to this dim-witted lady and didn’t give in to her stupid@$$ request. There are parts of the government that I don’t like as well (criminal rights: biggest oxymoron I know). Even with those parts I will NEVER give up on my country. LOVE IT or LEAVE IT. One of the phrases I use almost on a daily basis to describe certain occurrences whether good or bad is, “ONLY IN AMERICA.” Remember when we’re nice and cozy in our bed, there are men and women out there fighting for what we all believe in, FREEDOM. One thing is for certain, they are all saying…

I GOT YOUR BACK...

I am a small and precious child, my dads been sent to fight.
The only place I'll see his face is in my dreams at night.
He will be gone too many days for my young mind to keep track.
I may be sad, but I am proud. My daddy's got your back.

I am a caring mother. My son has gone to war.
My mind is filled with worries that I have never known before.
Everyday I try to keep my thoughts from turning black.
I may be scared, but I am proud. My son has got your back.

I am a strong and loving wife, with a husband soon to go.
There are times I'm terrified in a way most never know.
I bite my lip, and force a smile as I watch my husband pack.
My heart may break, but I am proud. My husbands got your back.

I am a soldier... Serving Proudly, standing tall.
I fight for freedom, yours and mine by answering this call.
I do my job while knowing, the thanks it sometimes lacks.
Say a prayer that I'll come home. It's me who's got your back.

Author Unknown

 

[manuel]

great editorial? eh, its ok. i dont agree with some of it. man really, who loves uncle sam? not everyone im sure, well maybe until we get your income tax we do. whats this about "learn english or go home". you do realize most mexican immigrants dont even finish elementary school?(im speaking on the behalf of the poor mexican) its a weak excuse, yes, but im just stating facts. hell, i probably wouldnt have gotten past the 4th grade had my mom not worked 3 worthless jobs, cleaning homes, cooking burgers, then cleaning the hamburger place just to have enough money to biring us back to houston(i was born here in houston). trust me, most of you dont know what being poor is. there are many, many illegal/legal immigrants taking advantage of the system, wether its food stamps, or welfare(and others) and stay home and be f*****g bums, just as many "americans" do.

dont take me wrong, i love everything the USA offers. im proud to be a citizen, and in a way ive been "americanized". im as "myharley" put it..."I am proud of the fact that I am a money grubbing, spoiled rotten, instant gratification, American". i would have loved to join the armed forces as well, i think its one of the most honorable/gratifying "job", too bad i have so much crap wrong with me.

 

[MyHarley]

Manuel sweetie, we got to change the avatar, its pure spooky.......

The difference in you Manuel is you learned English, you didnt sit back and want everyone else to change their ways for you......your Mother is also to be commended, she worked her butt off........she didnt sit back and wait on others to make it for you or change it for you.......that my friend is living the American dream..........just as all Americans have the right to achieve..........

 

[codex57]

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/sultaana1.html

Well this is interesting. Could it be she wants to hide her face in case someone recognizes her from her mug shots for beating up a child?

edit: ooh, upon furth digging, I found some info on that child beating case. Apparently she brought up this veil argument before in that Illinois case. Apparently, she objected to gov't officials lifting the veil of her child in that case too. The gov't did anyways. Guess what they found under there. Yup, bruises, which ultimately led to her child abuse case that she pled guilty to.

And here's a list of how Middle Eastern countries deal with the issue:
Saudi Arabia: Women aren't allowed to drive
Iran: Women wear a traditional chador, which does not cover the face.
Egypt: Women do not cover their face in I.D. pictures
United Arab Emirates: Women do not cover their face in I.D. pictures
Oman: Women do not cover their face in I.D. pictures
Kuwait: Women do not cover their face in I.D. pictures
Qatar: Women do not cover their face in I.D. pictures
Bahrain: Women do not cover their face in I.D. pictures
Jordan: Women can drive if their faces are covered but do not cover their face in I.D. pictures

 

[Bryan330i]

Very interesting. Her motives are clear and less than religion based. And how interesting that she is not aware of the photo requirements in these countries. Glad you found this and thanks for sharing it.

 

[gbf1lm]

btw i remember, i used to live in saudi arabia fora year, when my dad had a job there, and women CANT DRIVE. and they are forced to were those things in the blazing hot sun they have to wear those things bc the government says so, its not in the religion, u'd think they would finally come to america, and want to get out of the habits of their restricting govt.

 

[epj3]

I hate it when people come into staples, and get mad at me becuase i can not understand a word they are saying, GRR i was here first!!

 

[codex57]

Just went over my notes. Found the Smith test which holds that state laws of general application that are neutral (applies to everyone) and the purpose isn't intended to discriminate against religion, then you use the rational basis test (basically, come up with any argument, valid or not, and gov't wins).

So, for this picture on a license situation, it's a slam dunk win for the gov't. Supreme Court almost certainly won't even look at it. Everyone has to have a picture on their license it seems under the law and as long as the state claims a reason of some sort (to help combat crime for example), then the state wins.