DUI issues..

[Average Jae]

my friend recently got a DUI, got his license taken away, thrown in a slammer over night, after a cop trailed him home from a get together, pulling him over for "no turn signal" right in front of his appt.

he was saying that court fees/ lawyer fees would run him at least 2 grand, and could cost upwards of $10k to $20k from DUI "experts" around him

what i'm wondering is, what's the best way to go about dealing with the situation: go w/ a proven dui lawyer? (what's the best way to find one? yellow pages?) or is there a better alternative? also, if you know anyone that went through it, how much did it cost, and how did it work out in the end?

this happened up in East Lansing, Mi. if you know any good lawyers up there let me know. thanks.

 

[Big Daddy]

Don't drink and drive! There are lots of things an officer watches when he follows someone suspecting DUI before pulling them over, the failure to signal is nothing more than the PC (probable cause) to do so. Depending on the department, the officer may have been video taping his driving and there is most likely more violations and/or driving patterns that support the PC. Did your friend take a blood or breath test? What were the results? Is this his first?

 

[codex57]

just keep asking around like you're doing for him. But I'm not too sympathetic. Dying cuz of a drunk driver is one of the few things I actually worry about happening to me or my family.

 

[aNoodle]

I don't think simply failing to signal at a turn would give the police probable cause to pull someone over. At least I know the judges wouldn't go for that here in athens, ga. But BigD is right that they flip on the tape and watch for many other little things that, added up, give them cause to stop the car. I've seen a bunch of these tapes.

I was amazed that the judge let one case survive a motion in limine (to get rid of the evidence and the case) because the officer popped in the vcr tape and showed the suv crossed the center lane once and touched (but didn't cross) the right line twice...and this was on a real windy road. I could hardly believe that was cause...but it was. I was watching the next time I drove that road how many times I did the exact same thing when sober....and in a car half the size of a suv. Bottom line: the police almost always have cause. I've only seen a couple cases get thrown out and they involved pedestrians approaching vehicles for drug sales and other wierd stuff...but the typical police car following with his tape on is rarely if ever going to get thrown out.

Anyway, unless there is was an improper reason to be pulled over, I doubt your friend is going to get off. There may be some technical procedures the police didn't follow. The lawyer may argue the sobriety tests were not done right. There are technicalities in ga about the using the brealizer at the jail and your right to go to a hospital for blood tests. The police do mess up, more often than you realize, but not that much. You could pay a lawyer to at least look at the basics.

The prosecutors here offer the statutory minimums to anyone who pleads guilty. Hire a lawyer and demand a trial, then the prosecutors go for the throat. Seems unfair, cuz everyone deserves a trial. But that's how they manage their docket.

I saw one poor girl break down in court crying the other month when the jury came back with guilty on DUI and other stuff. Her attorney was aweful...mostly the younger local guys handle these sorts of cases. She was cuffed right there...got one more day than the minimum in jail, and had to pay more than the usual grand (plus she had to pay her lawyer for losing the case! at least $500 if not more since it was a trial).

Unless your friend honestly wasn't drinking (and the far out chance the police had no reason to pull you over) it's best to plead guilty and take it like a man.

 

[Abdoman]

I'll give you my ex-wife's phone number - she's had three DUIs.

 

[Big Daddy]

Hey "A", I agree with what you have to say, but a violation of any traffic law is probable cause for a stop, and in every state code I have read signaling is required.

Now your correct, he most likely followed the vehicle and witnessed other violations or patterns, then used the FTS to stop the car. You could stop someone, however simply for failing to signal, then develop your PC for DUI after the stop, but then you have no driving pattern. In the best case you get a driving pattern, a violation, make the stop, then develpo DUI PC using observations of the driver after the stop, speach, balance, breath (odor of an alcoholic beverage), motor skills, etc.

Of course the best situation is to not drink and drive. Like Codex said, far too many deaths in this country because some fool decided he was sober enough to drive, no death is worth it.

 

[aNoodle]

Yeah, I guess. But we're entering a grey area. Mostly likely this dude was all over the road.

But if it's simply not signaling, hmmmm. If it's pretext, there could be a problem. I'm thinking of the sucessful mostion to supress I saw where the police stopped a car for pausing in the road to speak to a pedestrian. The pedestrian was leaning in the passenger window of the car in an area known for drug deals here. Lo and behold, they had drugs!!

The driver was charged with a parked car in a thruway violation. It was so obscure. It would be analogous to ticketing someone for not using a signal. If the police never ticket poeple for this then it raises eyebrows.

I mean, imagine you're driving in your subdivision and your neighbor runs out to your car and leans in the window to talk about tennis on Saturday. Can the police swoop in, charge him with jaywalking and you with a parked vehicle in the roadway...then execute searches or develop cause for other arrests? And if they subsequently found, let's say, an illegal radar detector in the car should they be entitled to use that evidence?

I realize the police know, more often than not exactly, what is going on. Give me a break. The problem is balancing things so we're not to the point of being a police state. They could never stop a pedetrian and search him in that way. So why would they allow them to use the more obscure tedium of the traffic laws to do just that. It would lead to some purverse results.

I could go look for some turn signal only cases...but i'm off to the pool. Trying to enjoy a summer off from all that here!!! LOL. I think you could be right in some jurisdictions BigD, maybe not in others (I'm saying on this narrow turn signal only as cause), but who knows I'm no authority.

 

[codex57]

Can't stop a pedestrian if he didn't do anything wrong. If a vehicle violates a traffic law that would give him a ticket (no matter how obscure or stupid you think the law is... tons of people think speeding tickets are stupid), then that's grounds to be pulled over. Not searched necessarily, but if contraband is in plain view when the cop walks up.... well, too bad for the person having the contraband. I don't have much sympathy for them either. They're not supposed to have it anyways. Yeah a police state would be bad, but we have protections from unreasonable searches. Leaving a bag of crack on the seat next to you when you know a cop is coming is just stupid. Not that hard to slip it in a pocket or something. Traffic stop doesn't give probable cause to search a person.

 

[Kirby]

Is this his first offense? Can he plea guilty and get a "first time offender" negotiated deal? In Pennsylvania first time offenders (with no deaths, injuries or property damage) can plea guilty and take a class and probation. I think that after a few clean years of driving, it even gets removed from their record.

 

[MrElussive]

Did you guys forget that I got pulled over like two weeks ago for absolutely nothing? I did NOTHING wrong and the cop pulled me over and asked me a few questions and then I was on my way.

 

[xLibelle]

lol, yeah, we forgot because it sounded like he had probable cause

i got a dui in highschool 8 years ago. my suggestion to your friend is tell him to suck it up and take it like a man, because its something he now gets to learn the EASY way!

I got pulled for not maintaining lane... stupid loose tierods on my 20 year old mercedes grabbed the centerline.
I spent my 12 hr in jail, 2k in fees, 24 hr community service, one year liscense removed, countless amounts of embarrassment. I went right through court with my dads lawyer who did nothing but stand there... but i feel like it was for the best. Because after everything, i had enough time to think about what i did. That one year was one humbling year for me!

 

[Big Daddy]

Yeah, I guess. But we're entering a grey area. Mostly likely this dude was all over the road.

I do not see it as a gray area, but I do agree that most likely the officer had other driving patterns that he used. An officer has to be careful and make his decision to stop without waiting too long, or the drunk could become involved in an accident. This is the tough balancing act they go through every shift.

But if it's simply not signaling, hmmmm. If it's pretext, there could be a problem. I'm thinking of the sucessful mostion to supress I saw where the police stopped a car for pausing in the road to speak to a pedestrian. The pedestrian was leaning in the passenger window of the car in an area known for drug deals here. Lo and behold, they had drugs!!

The driver was charged with a parked car in a thruway violation. It was so obscure. It would be analogous to ticketing someone for not using a signal. If the police never ticket poeple for this then it raises eyebrows.

Not signaling is a violation with a penalty, not a pretext stop. It is not if the police "never ticket" for it, it is do the police routinely stop for this violation, if they do (ticket or not) it is a valid stop.

I mean, imagine you're driving in your subdivision and your neighbor runs out to your car and leans in the window to talk about tennis on Saturday. Can the police swoop in, charge him with jaywalking and you with a parked vehicle in the roadway...then execute searches or develop cause for other arrests? And if they subsequently found, let's say, an illegal radar detector in the car should they be entitled to use that evidence?

No, but if an officer pulled up and said, "hey guys get out of the street", then noticed that my speech was slurred, and got a wiff of alcohol on me, then he would have the PC necessary to investigate further. To answer your other example, no you cannot search a car without PC for the search, not the same as PC for the stop. If they do develop other cause for arrest, like I said about my speech, etc., then arrest me, then yes they can search my car.

I realize the police know, more often than not exactly, what is going on. Give me a break. The problem is balancing things so we're not to the point of being a police state. They could never stop a pedetrian and search him in that way. So why would they allow them to use the more obscure tedium of the traffic laws to do just that. It would lead to some purverse results.

Where did a search enter this discussion? If they have PC for a stop, develop PC for an arrest, then yes they can search. I never said that they could search him for not signaling, but they can stop him for it and investigate further. Your making this more difficult than it needs be. A lot of what you are saying is correct, but what I am saying is that one only needs PC for a stop to make the stop. You do not have to have all the evidence of a DUI before stopping the car.

I could go look for some turn signal only cases...but i'm off to the pool. Trying to enjoy a summer off from all that here!!! LOL. I think you could be right in some jurisdictions BigD, maybe not in others (I'm saying on this narrow turn signal only as cause), but who knows I'm no authority.

I agree that some jurisdictions may dismiss the case based on the original PC for the stop, but that does not mean the PC does not exist. The "Uniform Traffic Code" is 90% or more the same in all states. I know that all states require a signal before turning. More importantly is the officers creditability. A case could be kicked because the officer in question routinely uses "weak" PC, so the judge looks at all his cases with a questioning eye. I know a DUI case where the car was stopped because the operator was going 45 MPH in a 25 MPH zone, Good PC, no question about the violation. The driver was arrested for DUI when he failed every soberity test and fell on his face. A "new" (on the bench) judge kicked the case stating that it was 2am and even though the speed limit was 25, heck there was no one else on the road at 2am so 45 should be ok. True story, but the officer had PC and had a good DUI case as well. In this case the drunk got away with it because a judge made a poor decision.

 

[jszar]

what does he need a lawyer for?

 

[aNoodle]

.....

Agreed. Didn't mean to overly complicate or jack the thread. It's kinda an interesting area of law.

 

[Big Daddy]

True, so very true!

 

[Average Jae]

thanks for the replies. gone for a day plus, and have tons to read ^^;;

i agree w/ codex on the driving drunk issue. and for someone that said suck it up and take it like a man.. why? if there are ways to lessen the penality for a fee, i think i'd try to do that instead. if you are the type to, then i applaud you.

as for getting pulled over for failure to signal is complete BS, but does give the cop a probable cause. i wasn't there to witness his driving patter or anything, so i can't say one way or another how he was driving. the fact is he got pulled over after he parked and had to spend a night in the drunk tank. and now has his license taken away and looking at ton of money to blow for that one stupid act.

now i can't say that drinking and driving is tolerable, but how many of you can say that they never drove after they had a drink or two? (well for those that drink anyway) it doesn't make it ok, but sometimes it comes down to luck. (getting pulled over that is) but do it often enough, your luck just may run out. but all i'm trying to do here is to figure out a way to help my friend out. not have a philosophical debate over the matter.

so for those that went through the whole dui process or know of someone that did, i'm wondering how they went through it, and the results. if you wanna bash drunk drivers, go make your own thread and do it there.

 

[h317]

now i can't say that drinking and driving is tolerable, but how many of you can say that they never drove after they had a drink or two? (well for those that drink anyway) it doesn't make it ok, but sometimes it comes down to luck. (getting pulled over that is) but do it often enough, your luck just may run out.

Sad you look at DUI this way

 

[dzervit]

Sad you look at DUI this way

How many people do you know that NEVER drove after a few drinks? Not totally wasted, but if they took a breathalizer would fail?! I'm guessing at least 3 out of 4 people have done this. I personally don't know anyone that hasn't done it once. A Jae's being realistic. I applaud that he had the sack to say it.

As for the DUI, tell him to suck it up and cop a plea if he can. And tell him to be on his best behavior from now until it's off his record...

 

[aNoodle]

thanks for the replies. gone for a day plus, and have tons to read ^^;;

i agree w/ codex on the driving drunk issue. and for someone that said suck it up and take it like a man.. why? if there are ways to lessen the penality for a fee, i think i'd try to do that instead. if you are the type to, then i applaud you.

as for getting pulled over for failure to signal is complete BS, but does give the cop a probable cause. i wasn't there to witness his driving patter or anything, so i can't say one way or another how he was driving. the fact is he got pulled over after he parked and had to spend a night in the drunk tank. and now has his license taken away and looking at ton of money to blow for that one stupid act.

now i can't say that drinking and driving is tolerable, but how many of you can say that they never drove after they had a drink or two? (well for those that drink anyway) it doesn't make it ok, but sometimes it comes down to luck. (getting pulled over that is) but do it often enough, your luck just may run out. but all i'm trying to do here is to figure out a way to help my friend out. not have a philosophical debate over the matter.

so for those that went through the whole dui process or know of someone that did, i'm wondering how they went through it, and the results. if you wanna bash drunk drivers, go make your own thread and do it there.

I'm speachless.

 

[Big Daddy]

thanks for the replies. gone for a day plus, and have tons to read ^^;;

i agree w/ codex on the driving drunk issue. and for someone that said suck it up and take it like a man.. why? if there are ways to lessen the penality for a fee, i think i'd try to do that instead. if you are the type to, then i applaud you.

as for getting pulled over for failure to signal is complete BS, but does give the cop a probable cause. It is not BS if it is a law violation!

i wasn't there to witness his driving patter or anything, so i can't say one way or another how he was driving. the fact is he got pulled over after he parked and had to spend a night in the drunk tank. and now has his license taken away and looking at ton of money to blow for that one stupid act.

A choice he made.

now i can't say that drinking and driving is tolerable, but how many of you can say that they never drove after they had a drink or two? (well for those that drink anyway) it doesn't make it ok, but sometimes it comes down to luck. (getting pulled over that is) but do it often enough, your luck just may run out. but all i'm trying to do here is to figure out a way to help my friend out. not have a philosophical debate over the matter.

Better question is how many have learned from it? How many have lost a loved one as a result of a drunk driver?

so for those that went through the whole dui process or know of someone that did, i'm wondering how they went through it, and the results. if you wanna bash drunk drivers, go make your own thread and do it there. Why did you chose to flame the responders when you never asnwered their questions? I attempted to ask questions in an effort to give your friend some advice but you ignored them? Oh well, wish him luck!